One comment from reader "RevTieDye" really stood out to me today, though. It's in response to my article, "Who Holds The Burden of Proof About Bare Feet?" I'm posting the comment as its own entry to educate and stir discussion. There have been several people who've asked me, "Is discrimination against your bare feet really that bad?" This real-life example, while a bit more extreme than most, helps answer that question. I have my own stories that I've already told, and Dr. Daniel Howell shared a similar story of discrimination that happened on his book tour last year as well.
RevTieDye wrote...
"
A day after reading this post I was in a grocery store that I've been frequenting barefoot for almost a year now. At least 20 visits without shoes. But this time an employee informs me that I can't be in there barefoot.
Me: Can you show me where it says I can't be barefoot.
Employee: No, but it's a health code.
Me: I'm sorry, but that's a myth. There is no such law. [exit SL]
2 minutes later the "Manager's apprentice" (that's actually what it said on his name badge) with two more large male employees flanking him arrives to tell me I had to leave. Like I'm brandishing a weapon or threatening another customer, or something.
I've seen a dozen ways to handle this politely, by people far more clueless than him. He didn't ask, he didn't politely inform, he didn't suggest that I wear shoes next time. He cut straight to
Apprentice: Sir, you have to leave--I can't allow you to be barefoot in here.
Me: Can you show me where it says I have to wear shoes.
Apprentice: Sir, I've asked you to leave, and you haven't. Now you're trespassing.
Me: I just want to see it in writing, because there are a lot of myths about bare feet. Can you show me that your company supports your opinion?
Note: So far, I have kept it at a conversational polite level the whole time, but now he starts raising his voice.
Apprentice: Sir you are trespassing. My next step is to call the police.
Me: Are you seriously saying that you would call the police and say "This is Jeremiah at W***o, come quick, we’ve got a barefoot guy down here?"
But at this point I knew I needed to back down and leave before I got my dander up and started contributing to the scene he was already making. So I left while I could still pretend to be calm.
I do believe you're right. We shouldn't have to bear the burden of proof. But I like to go barefoot because it's relaxing and makes me feel connected to the world. Dealing with the adrenaline levels of being confronted by an over-zealous apprentice manager and his intimidating wing-men is the opposite of what I'm after. I may have to hang up my protester hat, and just put on those vile flip-flops I keep under the seat of my truck.
"
Michael here again. Please understand that this is only ONE example of a countless number very similar to it. Barefooters are discriminated against like this on a regular basis -- and it's been happening for decades now. We're not just blowing it out of proportion or getting unnecessarily upset.
Me: Can you show me where it says I can't be barefoot.
Employee: No, but it's a health code.
Me: I'm sorry, but that's a myth. There is no such law. [exit SL]
2 minutes later the "Manager's apprentice" (that's actually what it said on his name badge) with two more large male employees flanking him arrives to tell me I had to leave. Like I'm brandishing a weapon or threatening another customer, or something.
I've seen a dozen ways to handle this politely, by people far more clueless than him. He didn't ask, he didn't politely inform, he didn't suggest that I wear shoes next time. He cut straight to
Apprentice: Sir, you have to leave--I can't allow you to be barefoot in here.
Me: Can you show me where it says I have to wear shoes.
Apprentice: Sir, I've asked you to leave, and you haven't. Now you're trespassing.
Me: I just want to see it in writing, because there are a lot of myths about bare feet. Can you show me that your company supports your opinion?
Note: So far, I have kept it at a conversational polite level the whole time, but now he starts raising his voice.
Apprentice: Sir you are trespassing. My next step is to call the police.
Me: Are you seriously saying that you would call the police and say "This is Jeremiah at W***o, come quick, we’ve got a barefoot guy down here?"
But at this point I knew I needed to back down and leave before I got my dander up and started contributing to the scene he was already making. So I left while I could still pretend to be calm.
I do believe you're right. We shouldn't have to bear the burden of proof. But I like to go barefoot because it's relaxing and makes me feel connected to the world. Dealing with the adrenaline levels of being confronted by an over-zealous apprentice manager and his intimidating wing-men is the opposite of what I'm after. I may have to hang up my protester hat, and just put on those vile flip-flops I keep under the seat of my truck.
"
Michael here again. Please understand that this is only ONE example of a countless number very similar to it. Barefooters are discriminated against like this on a regular basis -- and it's been happening for decades now. We're not just blowing it out of proportion or getting unnecessarily upset.
It's situations like this that made me start The Primalfoot Alliance, an organization that advocates for people's natural right to go barefoot if they so choose. If you haven't heard of it, here's the Web site.
Now, a few things stand out to me about RevTieDye's story:
First, it's not uncommon to go barefoot into a business multiple times without problems and then suddenly get stopped by the shoe police. It doesn't matter that you've safely shopped there unshod before -- even if other employees have clearly seen you doing it -- even if you mention that to them. From then on you're supposed to wear shoes. Period. (And don't expect that they'll put a sign up prohibiting barefooters from then on. They have every right to have a policy and not let their patrons know about it until it's been violated.)
Second, the myth of the health code prohibiting bare feet is huge. What's more? Shoot that down and they'll likely change their tune and suddenly have a different reason why bare feet are not okay -- a reason they never mentioned before. If it's not against health code then it must be illegal? No? Then it's...
Third, it's not uncommon for a manager to bring backup. I've experienced it. I know others have, too. For some reason, having a foreboding security guard or burly male employee by their side is used as a tactic to incite intimidation in barefooters or protect the manager from the barefooter. That's right, intimidate patrons who are only different because they lack shoes. That, or have backup available in case this barefoot person flies off the handle and goes berserk on you. It's good to have protection because, you know, anybody that shops without footwear must not be straight in the head, right?
Fourth, as is the case in so many confrontations like this, management resorted to the bottom-line reason of "because we said so" for discriminating against the barefoot customer. This manager even went so far as to not even explain him/herself. The, "because we said so," was implied.
Whether you're a barefooter or not, what do you think of this situation? Do you feel like this gave you a better picture of the discrimination that barefooters often face? Is it more important to back down to the shoe police than get your "adrenaline levels" up when confronted? Please leave your comments in the section below.
First, it's not uncommon to go barefoot into a business multiple times without problems and then suddenly get stopped by the shoe police. It doesn't matter that you've safely shopped there unshod before -- even if other employees have clearly seen you doing it -- even if you mention that to them. From then on you're supposed to wear shoes. Period. (And don't expect that they'll put a sign up prohibiting barefooters from then on. They have every right to have a policy and not let their patrons know about it until it's been violated.)
Second, the myth of the health code prohibiting bare feet is huge. What's more? Shoot that down and they'll likely change their tune and suddenly have a different reason why bare feet are not okay -- a reason they never mentioned before. If it's not against health code then it must be illegal? No? Then it's...
Third, it's not uncommon for a manager to bring backup. I've experienced it. I know others have, too. For some reason, having a foreboding security guard or burly male employee by their side is used as a tactic to incite intimidation in barefooters or protect the manager from the barefooter. That's right, intimidate patrons who are only different because they lack shoes. That, or have backup available in case this barefoot person flies off the handle and goes berserk on you. It's good to have protection because, you know, anybody that shops without footwear must not be straight in the head, right?
Fourth, as is the case in so many confrontations like this, management resorted to the bottom-line reason of "because we said so" for discriminating against the barefoot customer. This manager even went so far as to not even explain him/herself. The, "because we said so," was implied.
I would just stop patronizing that business. For good. And I would perhaps consider getting an attorney.
ReplyDeleteIf you are a frequent barefooter, you will encounter the shoe police. You will be treated like a shoplifter, a disturber of the peace, a transgressor. You may feel embarrassed or angry, or a combination of the two. You will be threatened by rent-a-cops who know nothing about the law or company policy. Not that any of that matters to them. No signs will be posted, no warning given before you are asked to leave--i.e., thrown out. Neatness of appearance will not save you nor will a reasonable manner. Nothing matters because it is discrimination plain and simple.
ReplyDeleteNo, it is not anywhere as bad as racial or gender discrimination, but it is discrimination nevertheless. And we have a long ways to go.
I carry around a letter from the health dept. It frequently helps.
ReplyDeleteThis is pure discrimination. Seriously, who should be scared of a barefooter?
ReplyDeleteIf you're able to show the manager that there are no health codes requiring shoes and that they would not be liable, they will still ask you to leave because of the pride factor. Once they tell you to leave, there is no turning back. They will not change their mind because they would be too embarassed to admit they were wrong. They have a dictator mentality and to give in to a "lowly" barefooter would be too much to ask of them.
ReplyDeleteThe first question RevTieDye asked the manager was the wrong approach. Right away, this puts the manager on the defensive, since he doesn't have a document saying customer's can't go barefoot. Rev also appears that he will not comply and is ready to argue, so the manager is already uptight at this point and closed minded.
ReplyDeleteA better approach might be as follows:
Mgr: You can't be barefoot in here, so please leave.
Customer: OK, buy may I ask why this is an issue?
The OK part is extremely important, because it tells the mgr that you will comply but just want to know why this is an issue. Also, use a submissive tone of voice, no matter how angry you are inside. Once the mgr gives you a reason, then discuss the issue as nicely as possible, keep it short, and end it with the phrase "..so you have nothing to worry about." If he still says no, then comply but still be nice. There is no point taking it any further because of the pride factor pointed out in the previous comment. This approach has worked for me on a few occasions.
"management resorted to the bottom-line reason of "because we said so""
ReplyDeleteThis will never change because of the politics that most people in America have in their heads. The rights of business of all kinds, the right to make money and acquire more material stuff supersedes all other rights. It used to be "the customer is always right". Now it's "business that can make money and profits is always right". Their perception, wrong or right, is considered right by our current culture. The greed of the 1980s started that, it was gradually downhill ever since.
if enough people went barefoot and WANTED to go barefoot you would get this kind of scenario, as it was in the 1970s:
ReplyDeleteIn 1976, some mall called Valley River Center, had a story about it and the
"mall cops" that work there. One of the paragraphs reads:
Eugene Register-Guard February 1, 1976
"Inside the building they have similar center regulations to enforce. Valley
River still requires that shoppers wear shirts, although it has given up on
prohibiting bare feet."
GIVEN UP. That says a lot about how common going barefoot was. Today's young people have no desire to do so.
In the previous comment, you're right, today's young people have no desire to go barefoot. I remember in the 80's that every time there was a car wash by a group of young people, they were all barefoot, even the ones that didn't normally go barefoot. Now when you see a car wash, every kid is wearing flip-flops glued to their feet. I have yet to see a car wash by a group of kids where at least one is barefoot. You can blame parents and the shoe police for brainwashing kids that it is wrong and too dangerous to go barefoot.
ReplyDeleteExperienced this problem plenty. Some stores no longer get money from me because of it. The local food co op wants me to wear shoes. I still go in regularly without shoes. However I do it on Sunday evenings once a week. When the folks that seem most concerned don't work.
ReplyDeleteThese people that approach you hate to be questioned on policy.
I still would like to find a legal loop hole to sue them. Any ideas ?
Mostly I get the double take. People really are shocked by bare feet. Some people feel comfortable enough to tell me how unsanitary it is and shudder about dirty feet. I was told emphatically that I may not be barefoot in a local coffee shop. As one poster said above, neatness of appearance and grooming mean nothing. I think it odd, in our hypocritically Puritanical society, that young women may run around with bits of flesh bulging out of their clothing and wearing pants and tops that leave nothing to the imagination but a 46 year old trail running, yoga doin', mountain biking healthy health professional is openly disdained over the sin of ((gasp!)) BARE FEET!!
ReplyDelete"People really are shocked by bare feet."
ReplyDeleteToday's young people have no point of reference for this. Bare feet have been out of style for so long that they do not even know they ever were.
I know the feeling. Sometime ago, I went to buy something at Pier 1 Imports. As I was looking, an employee wanted to know if I needed help and she told me about their policy. I said "oh ok" and I left back to my car to put my shoes back on. SHe was very polite and I when I came back, she said "Welcome back" in a nice way. I think many stores have no barefeet policies because of sheer ignorance like RevTieDie's story or because they are afraid of lawsuits. It is rare to see people barefoot out in public these days. When I go barefoot running at a nearby park, I rarely see anybody barefoot, except for kids at a playground. Stores figure with the economy so bad these days, they would ease on their "no barefooters allowed" policy.
ReplyDeleteI feel that it is pretty ridiculous that in this day and age WE have to deal with stupid BAREFOOT DISCRIMINATION? Like seriously? comon people, that is ridiculous! And what is also ridiculous is the degree at which these people insult and put us down for being barefoot. We aren't breaking any laws, and we become treated like crap because we don't conform to societies norms. I have become so fed up that I wear these paper shoes into stores because I'm done dealing with stupid peoples ignorance. To be honest if they think one way about Barefeet, it is very hard to change the businesses opinion. I have tried, and it is just not worth the fight because those people stay close minded anyways.
ReplyDelete"treated like crap because we don't conform to societies norms"
ReplyDeleteThose too young are probably blissfully unaware that during the 1960s that is how men with long hair were treated as well. If your hair was even a little long, that is, not cut right to the hairline and was over your ears and collar and hanging in your face, there were parts of the country and certain neighborhoods where you were not welcome. You could get thrown out of stores or malls, driving in certain 'red-neck' areas in the South would get you pulled over, arrested on some trumped-up charges, and your head may even be shaved. Happened to up and coming rock stars too - Bruce Springsteen encountered that in 1969 when he had shoulder length hair. Yet 2 or 3 years later, long hair became the style, and just about everyone had it. Even those who mocked and taunted 'longhairs' a few years earlier. Barefooters need that kind of strength in numbers, so that society can become desensitized and indifferent to us. Look how many times since the 1960s long hair for men went in and out of style. No one cared either way, as it should be.
I think the confusion on healthcode etc stems from a couple points. While there may not be legislation in place regarding customers etc, there is infact some legislation as it pertains to workers. For starters closed toe shoes are necessary in all areas deemed as food preparation areas, e.g. a restaurants kitchen. Its more to protect the workers themselves from injury than it is for sanitary reasons. It technically falls under the "Personal Hygiene" section under personal protective clothing (at least in Maryland it did when I worked in a restaurant).
ReplyDeleteIn addition, maybe its a rule for the employees of the grocery store. Many businesses, especially ones where employees may be moving/lifting/stacking heavy items have regulations of footwear to protect the employees. Maybe the employees in the aforementioned grocery store had such a regulation for themselves so they just believed that it applied to customers as well.
But like others have said if the barefoot gentlemen had handled the situation better it might not of come to that. I mean, if someone came into my business in the same situation and was rude to me I completely reserve the right to remove them from my store. I'm not quite sure how this would hold up legally, even bigger than the barefoot is healthcode myth is the "right to refuse service to anyone" myth. You mostly see this as a sign at restaurants etc, its actually unconstitutional and there have been several cases in which it has been deemed so. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 explicitly prohibits restaurants from refusing service to patrons on the basis of race, color, religion, or natural origin. In addition, most courts don’t allow restaurants to refuse service to patrons based on extremely arbitrary conditions.
Interestingly enough though, a restaurant IS able to refuse patrons who are unreasonably rowdy or causing trouble, patrons who come in just before closing time or when the kitchen is closed, patrons accompanied by large groups of non-customers looking to sit in, patrons lacking adequate hygiene (e.g. excess dirt, extreme body odor, etc.) In most cases, refusal of service is warranted where a customer’s presence in the restaurant detracts from the safety, welfare, and well-being of other patrons and the restaurant itself.
Kind of vague but interesting to think of right? Sorry all my examples are from restaurants but I worked a bunch of years in one so thats what I know lol
Any lawyers around want to help us ? Do these stores really have this right to enforce such a thing ? I'd really like to see us challenge this stuff in court. Anyone have any real experience with this ?
ReplyDeleteIt's seems the only thing that could change this trend is if we get some support from a judge with a big ruling. Though how would we play our cards to begin the suit ?
Anyone have any lawyer friends for advice ? With the right case maybe we could set a new national trend on how stores handle this policy. Or rather the elimination of this policy.
If I had rulings on the books already in favor of us. I would use that to present it to a local lawyer in my area to start a suit, and others could do the same in your home town, etc.
We just need to get that door open with legal support. Otherwise the education route is going to take forever.......
Hm. Well, as a former housewife of a barefooter, I can tell you that generally shoes do not track in nearly as much dirt as bare feet, so I think you are all wrong about the hygiene issue. Unless you clean your feet and toenails when entering a business, you are fooling yourself about being as clean as a shod person. Feh.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, do you all live in rural areas with dirt paths and roads? Otherwise your argument for being "natural" is just wrong. It's one thing to be barefoot in the park or on a lawn, but did you ever consider that people in polite society does not want to see your calloused, dirty feet?
I'm sure you've all heard this before, but please keep your feet to yourself.
P.S. Wipes are disposable and very bad for the environment in a myriad of ways. So much for the "natural" lifestyle!
ReplyDeleteDon't even get me started on driving barefoot...
~Thankful to be rid of the dirty bare feet from my home!!!
Exhibit A above.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that in a private establishment they can make any rule they like. I always go with "I sorry, I had no idea here is a letter from the Heath Dept saying it isn't against the health code to go barefoot" Then is they still insist I say OK & walk away. If stopped again I say "I'm sorry, I don't have shoes with me I thought you meant next time, may I just get my things & leave?" Playing dumb gets you farther than intelligent conversation with people who aren't intelligent.
ReplyDeleteSo a private establishment has some amount of right to refuse service, which may or may not pertain to barefooters... but what about a public businesses such as the dining facilities at a public university?
ReplyDeleteI worked there, and we had to take state-employee-specific training, so I know that they are definitely at least to some extent a public entity. Do they have even the slightest grounds to kick me out for being barefoot? I had almost the exact same experience as Mr.Tyedye, except that it kinda hurt worse because they were managers who I am (or was) on friendly terms with (I was a pretty well-liked worker).
I go to a public university in Florida and they won't let me in their student union barefoot. They cited environmental concerns, but couldn't give me any specifics. Then they said it was an internal policy, but they could not produce a copy of that policy. Finally they claimed it was for health and safety reasons, and since I don't go walking in dirt or mud at the university, that's also a silly concern.
ReplyDeleteI was a barefoot wild child who cursed wearing shoes as much as the mandatory tie throughout K-12. In keeping with this free spirited Bohemian attitude I dropped out of business school and went on to get a Bachelors in Animal Physio, a Masters in Biochemistry and am working on a Proteomics track Ph.D. Not tooting my anonymous horn here, simply saying that I re immersed myself in Barefoot culture after a crippling knee injury ruined my college athleticism and running barefoot singularly freed me from my formerly noticeable limp.
ReplyDeleteI am in a constant clash with local restaurants over my ways and usually launch into an intellectually charged, sensibly nonsensical rant when questioned or troubled. Begrudgingly most establishments narrowly permit my barefootedness so long as I do so discreetly. Stay strong fellow Barefooted travelers, evolutionary biology is on our side. Orthopedics beware!
I have not yet had the courage to go barefoot in public (except on the holiday), but I've gotten comments and looks when running barefoot or wearing minimalist footwear in public.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny how much this discussion mirrors that of Open Carry discussions on Indiana's gun owner forum (INGO). It is legal in Indiana to openly carry a firearm when you have a license, but OCers, as we call them, get discriminated against not only by imaginary store policies, but even by officers of the law. I personally carry concealed as to not draw unnecessary attention to myself, but I'm glad there are people advocating my rights and educating the public.
Now that I think of it, I'm a 'concealed barefooter' in a sense. I always wear minimalist shoes, but generally huaraches or my vivobarefoots - both of which look like normal footwear.
On a more serious note, the customer could truly have been arrested for trespassing if he refused to leave the store after being asked. The only upside is that any posted policies don't matter; they actually have to tell you to leave.